Talk:Gout

Carpet cleaning

There have been recent studies of occupational risk factors for gout. Unanimously all have concluded that carpet cleaning carries by far the highest risk. Editors, please add content related to occupational factors increasing risk of gout. I cannot at the moment, as the article is protected. Thanks, 2601:703:300:820:5C5C:7A94:D011:DB3C (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I know of no such studies and my preliminary search on Google shows nothing either. MartinezMD (talk) 00:23, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

It might be a case of correlation vs causation BlueBellTree (talk) 04:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

vandalism

before i restore a whole lot of stuff just deleted, could the culprit pls explain WHY? i was asking abt several CONTRADICTORY sections (fruit coffee dairy etc having positive or negative effects; iron being totally ignored when in fact it pops up heavily in articles abt gout and NSAIDs) which need to be corrected/added to the article.

i DID frame these as "in my experience...", but only to lead in to the subjects. (compare this to threads in the archives where 50 ppl post ad nauseum abt the personal woes they are suffering! yet MY 3 sentences leading up to "why is this info wrong" is considered off-topic?! what the...??)

besides which, this is the TALK page, not the article. would u rather i "be bold" and correct the article w/o discussing it here first?! 2601:19C:527F:7890:8A7:E885:F42D:78BC (talk) 07:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I didn't delete your post but I agree with the editor that did. "In my experience" and anything related has NO place here. The discussion page is discussion about the article only. If you have a directed addition or edit proposal for the article place it here. Otherwise no one wants to hear it. MartinezMD (talk) 16:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

OMG, look at the archives -- like 50 ppl trying to one-up each other with their personal tales of woe...WITHOUT leading to any ultimate point. u didn't seem to have any problem when all that was happening!

me, i just had a few lines SEGUEING towards some ultimately legit queries.

but ok, i'll get straighter to the point.

cud someone better informed than i please:

1) add the relationship with IRON? many sources point out how iron levels plummet during a bout -- is it the gout itself, the treatment (NSAIDs), or both? and WHY?

are urate crystals themselves high in iron, low in iron, or neither?

2) clean up the mess of foods/factors listed as contributing towards, or preventing against, an outbreak? right now it lists fructose as a major cause while "vitamin C" (which generally comes from fructose), cherries (loaded with fructose) and even "fruit" itself(!), are all preventatives. how is this POSSIBLE?

next, it lists "low fat dairy" as a preventative. what does this mean? dairy is all high fat with the exception of skim milk. if the article means skim milk, just say skim milk. it's just confusing to include butter, cheese and ice cream, only to then imply they're disqualified by the "low fat" modifier.

(altho i suppose one can find specialty low fat cheese in the same way that low-fructose robocherries probably exist. is the article really hinging on such things?)

lastly, "coffee" should probably state BLACK coffee specifically, since the default in modern days is a high-fat high-sugar drink. which i DON'T think is what is intended here.

thanks! 2601:19C:527F:7890:65A8:1439:686F:66AF (talk) 03:35, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

The article has been well-reviewed and edited over years, and is up to date with sources.

Comments: 1) There are no reviews establishing that iron is a cause of urate formation, only an association discussed in this publication. Without better evidence, iron as a factor in gout onset cannot be presented.

2) your comments above reflect both a misunderstanding of foods and inattention to reading the sources. This 2023 lay summary should be sufficient for your education, and this 2015 epidemiology review discusses possible onset factors and preventative factors, but none of this is certain, as other literature has provided for decades.

There is no mess to clean up. Nothing you stated warrants a change in the article. All statements concerning urate formation, gout onset, and disease factors require a WP:MEDRS source. Zefr (talk) 05:45, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

one should not have to read the sources if they are summarized correctly. as it currently stands, any normal reader will be scratching his head over how one eats fruit, esp cherries, without getting FRUCTOSE! or why "dairy" and "coffee" are indicated so generally, if only "skim milk" and "black coffee" are actually intended.

if the studies are clearer on these points, can we clean up the article to match?

and thanks for the ferratin study. sorry, it's already over my head. i'm just curious why u say it's an outlier, tho, when THOUSANDS of similar pages/studies google up?

i'm not necessarily asking if iron is a CAUSE, btw. more abt why iron levels nosedive as a RESULT. if it's just a side effect of NSAID treatment (as sources seem to assert), can NSAIDs be supplemented with iron? or is there some INHERENT REASON nsaids *need* to drop iron levels, and that ADDING iron would counteract their effectiveness?

thanks! 2601:19C:527F:7890:65A8:1439:686F:66AF (talk) 19:03, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

There is nothing confusing about the Prevention section stating that some foods may increase the risk of elevating urate levels, and some may reduce it. Key word "may", as there are too many complications of precisely determining food factors in relation to diseases. Comments on foods/drinks are referenced - that is what investigators found and published under peer-review. The MedlinePlus source in External links is a good lay summary of gout.

It is illogical to equate eating cherries (small amounts of fructose intake in typical amounts) vs. drinking a sugar-laden beverage.

On the iron issue, we use reputable reviews in medical publications as sources - the MEDRS guideline above. There are no reviews relating iron levels to gout, so this topic is not included.

I've adequately covered your points, so will not be continuing this conversation. Zefr (talk) 01:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

i see nothing anywhere about sugar-laden beverages, so nice straw man there. i guess you're implying that "high fructose corn syrup" is the *only* form of fructose that increases risk? well then, why not just SAY that? the article says "fructose". it is illogical to think any reader would interpret that as meaning "massive amounts" only. and it is beyond illogical to think that small amounts of fructose would REDUCE the risk of gout when large amounts trigger it. yes, of course, small amount may not increase the risk AS MUCH, but how does one get to "reduce"?

small amounts of tobacco increase cancer risk less than large amounts of tobacco, but does anyone say they actually REDUCE said risk? more than, say, going COLD TURKEY?

yet u would have it so with fructose.

and the "may" stuff is amusing, points for that. yeah, it "may" cause something....BUT IT DOESN'T!!!! lol.

one could list anything and everything here if that's the case. mashed potatoes "may" raise the risk...or may reduce it. true! watermelon "may" raise the risk...or may reduce it. true! riding a bike "may" raise the risk...or may reduce it. true!

thank you for not continuing the conversation, at least. i await someone with a better grasp of english semantics. 2601:19C:527F:7890:8017:FAC5:18A:6881 (talk) 02:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)