Talk:African Americans

Please add back Louisiana Creole French Under Languages

I noticed it has been removed without explanation and as an LA Creole myself this is an important aspect of AA Heritage and culture that has been wiped from the page. it has been there for a decade and was only removed this year. 66.163.89.16 (talk) 21:52, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

According to the Wiki, there are only 77 thousand native speakers.

Even if all of them are African American (which is highly unlikely) it would constitute a very tiny minority of African Americans. It's removal probably has to do with that.

Inclusions of such minorities of <0.1% for a language, amongst other topics, would clutter the article. Gelbom (talk) 02:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

It was only listed under the languages tab on the side, so the argument of it cluttering the article makes no sense. Also, a Louisiana Creole cuisine is a language of African-American people from people that are of Louisiana Creole Heritage. It seems like you are not very educated on this topic respectfully, but I don’t expect many people to really know about our history as LA Creoles. My reason for saying this was a lack of understanding made apparent to me in your first few sentences when you say you doubt that All of these speakers are African-American, when it is quite literally language of that group, a specific cultural heritage within African-American people. It’s a part of the diversity of AA people based on regional heritage and history.

By the same logic you’ve used, Gullah Geechee should be removed as well because it’s an incredibly tiny fraction of African-American people based on regional cultural heritage, but it still is a part of it which is why it’s listed. This is why they both were listed side-by-side until February of this year. Again is erasure of the diversity of African-American people. 65.43.209.212 (talk) 03:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

My bad. I got redirected to Louisiana French. This language has only 10,000 speakers according to wiki. Which would probably mean there are over 100 languages with more speakers in the African American community.

Unless African American is to mean those largely decendant from United States black slaves imported to the US over 150 years ago, it might reduce speakers above 10k to 50 langauges. That is still a long list.

I suppose however that the language having it's genesis among American blacks does merit its mention however. So I suppose I am inclined to support your decision.

(Also according to the wiki lede, it has other racial groups speaking it. This seems like a shoehorn but I'm inclined to believe not everyone of these 10k people are black.) Gelbom (talk) 21:38, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. I think it makes perfect sense. While a majority don't speak it, it's uniquely pertinent to the heritage and cultural history of African Americans. : ) Gabecube45 (talk) 05:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I moved the "other languages" to the section in the body, African Americans#Language. MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE has a strong tendency to restrict the contents of the infobox to "Key facts". Rsk6400 (talk) 07:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Info box discourse is insane on here Gabecube45 (talk) 08:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music F24

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 16 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mensahrunit, Erobertsonn (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Kpcw24 (talk) 19:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Change title to Black Americans?

Since this post is talking about Black Americans, to the exclusion of North Africans, should the title not be Black Americans? Captchacatcher (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME applies. African American is far more popular than Black American based on this Ngrams search. SKAG123 (talk) 05:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

This debate happens so often it's not even funny. I have no idea why but it won't go away. Gabecube45 (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Francisco Menéndez, Fort Mose

The Hispanic model of identity and representation has been historically characterized by its multi-faceted nature, which transcends strict racial categorizations. Numerous figures exemplify this complexity, including San Martín de Porres, Beatriz de Palacios, Spanish conquistador Juan Garrido that established the first commercial wheat farm in the Americas, Estevanico, Francisco Menendez in Florida, Juan de Villanueva, Juan Valiente, Juan Beltrán, Pedro Fulupo, Juan Bardales, Antonio Pérez, Gómez de León, Leonor Galiano, Teresa Juliana de Santo Domingo and Juan García. Additionally, Juan Latino stands out as a significant figure in this discourse; he is recognized as the first black African to attend a European university, ultimately achieving the status of professor. This highlights the notion that the Hispanic identity is not monolithic and is instead enriched by diverse contributions across racial and ethnic lines. Such examples serve to challenge simplistic perceptions of race within the historical narrative of Hispanic culture. 31.164.184.21 (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Racial or ethnic group ?

Until recently, the lead sentence had "are an ethnic group".[1] Now, it's "racial group". I just reverted an addition claiming that African American normally refers to the ethnic group, Black Americans to the racial group. Any thoughts ? Rsk6400 (talk) 06:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Should be more clear about ethnicity vs racial identification (as its clear its not clear to all). As of now we have an odd round about lead that takes a whole paragraph to say something simple.....just say Generally, the term Black denotes a racial identification, while African American refers to an ethnicity, specifically Americans with ancestry from one or more of the African continent's Black racial groups Moxy🍁 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

But what do we do with the first sentence ? Rsk6400 (talk) 08:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

“African American,”refers to people in the United States who self identity as having origins from Sub-Saharan Africa. Generally, the term Black denotes a racial identification, while African American refers to an ethnicity, specifically Americans with ancestry from one or more of the African continent's Black racial groups. APA style guide Moxy🍁 08:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

That’s not an ethnicity. It’s a grouping because Africans have so many different ethnic groups so just “Americans with ancestry from the continent of Africa” would not be an ethnic group. Ethnic Black Americans are the Black Americans that share ancestry through chattel slavery and that is distinctive culture and people this Wikipedia page is trying to capture. An African immigrant wouldn’t be an ethnic Black American they’d be [The country of their ancestry]-American such as “Nigerian Americans” “Ghanaian Americans” and we already have Wikipedia pages for them. Ajaystudies (talk) 13:50, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

We should say it's both a racial and an ethnic group. Both are mentioned and supported in the lead and body. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I tried "racial or ethnic group" because the word "or" is as ambiguous as the problem itself. I also used Moxy's idea of self identification. But as I read the style guide, it is not clear whether "Black" and "African American" can be clearly distinguished. Just a try, feel free to comment and / or improve. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

African-American is strictly an American term. No other Nation uses it and this should be made clear. Moxy🍁 20:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@Nampa DC: You changed it back to "ethnic group", although at least three editors seem to prefer "racial group" or "ethnic or racial group". Could you please explain ? Rsk6400 (talk) 18:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Immigrants

The article reads, "While some Black immigrants or their children may also come to identify as African American, the majority of first-generation immigrants do not, preferring to identify with their nation of origin."[10][11]

However, the citations listed [10 & 11] do not support this statement and one source actually say the opposite:

"However, as the number of African and Caribbean blacks immigrating to the USA has increased, so have the chances that someone who identifies as black or African American is a first- or second-generation immigrant." -Who is an ‘African American’? Definition evolves as USA does Tracy Scott Forson USA TODAY NETWORK 2018 96.241.225.164 (talk) 07:53, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Have a question ....

Please help me . As far as I understand "African Americans(AA)" means those "Americans(Citizens of USA)" who had or whose parents had either African citizenship ,or ancestry . Then why make AA= Black Americans(BA)? The term AA is ethnic ?or based on skin?colour or based on ancestry ?

There are "black skin colour people" outside Africa too . So when we say AA why BA is automatically assumed. Example: "IF" a white south african citizen become usa citizen he will be AA but not BA . Similarly those from other continent who fortunately or unfortunately have black skin colour will be BA once become USA citizen even if they are not AA . Mike, the regular nose job (talk) 13:41, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Mike, the regular nose job. My understanding of the term African American, refers to decendants of enslaved people. Beyond that, I'm not sure. In UK it's generally Black British. This is because we have black people who originated from all over the world, especially the British colonies. I'm unsure what Americans use for white South Africans? Knitsey (talk) 14:34, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that's the problem.

No disrespect to history of USA or its people or their struggles but the term AA and BA being used as interchangeable, which "I" believe is kinda dumb , you can't equal racial and ethnic optics , those are separate things or so I believe . Mike, the regular nose job (talk) 21:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC)