Talk:Young adult literature

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On 16 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Young-adult literature. The result of the discussion was Procedural close.

On 16 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Young adult fiction to Young adult literature. The result of the discussion was moved.

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On Harry Potter

Block evasion by User:Dcasey98.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I'm taking to the talk page on this.

I think people have difficulty placing this series because it evolves significantly over the course of the 7 books. I don't think there is any justification for counting Harry Potter as a "middle grade series" (a la Diary of a Wimpy Kid or Percy Jackson & the Olympians) given the lexile level of the books, their length, the age of the characters, the darker, more violent content, some of the conventions used (like the 7th book's epigraphs from Aeschylus and William Penn) and the very occasional use of language ("slut", "bastard", "bitch") that is not under any circumstance published in titles considered "Middle Grade". I acknowledge the somewhat subjective nature of this debate, but this makes it difficult to cite any one source to properly support either claim - many will say they are Young Adult, some will say Middle Grade, some say that the series progresses from Middle Grade to YA by about book 3 or 4, and the series is often casually referred to as a YA series. The Fantastic Beasts prequel stories to Harry Potter contain adult main characters, World War II imagery, and instances of infanticide. The wizarding world films are mostly PG-13 or 12 rated. The multimedia franchise overall, I'd argue, has complicated this by stretching the appeal and target audience of the franchise and its originating book series significantly. I don't think there is any meaningful argument to support the claim that Harry Potter is Middle Grade beyond "the first book is". I'm happy to revert the page back to where it was before my edits until a consensus is arrived at. Threefrgy (talk) 04:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"the very occasional use of language ("slut", "bastard", "bitch")" Your point being? I live close to a kindergarten, and regularly hear the kids using the equivalent Greek words, and others of that type. Dimadick (talk) 07:12, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I’m sure you can make facile excuses as to why any content should be allowable at middle grade just because Harry Potter has it, but publishers don’t publish books as middle grade with that language period. I made a number of other points, too. Threefrgy (talk) 18:51, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Withdrawn by nom. – robertsky (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Young adult fiction → Young-adult literature – We hyphenate adjective phrases on Wikipedia and the scope is "literature" not fiction. For instance, the page includes the "novel" 61 times and the word "film" only once, so it is far and away about a particular type of fiction: written fiction AKA literature. Wolfdog (talk) 19:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC) Wolfdog (talk) 19:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 02:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC) [reply]

comment contesting the technical request

@Wolfdog: Addition of a hyphen to the title has been reverted twice: in 2016 and in 2007. Those moves, particularly for the 2007 reason, lead me to believe that this is potentially controversial and should be proposed via a requested-move discussion, which you can open by pressing "discuss" on your request. There was also a 2007 move from "literature" to "fiction". SilverLocust 💬 20:06, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose - "Young adult" is the name of the literary genre. "Young-adult" is not. It appears virtually nowhere on the web. Dan Bloch (talk) 04:21, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Dan bloch. This isn't how it's used in practice. Names are just names, they don't have to be "grammatical." See this 2022 Washington Post article for an example which uses "young adult literature" with no hyphen. SnowFire (talk) 15:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- SnowFire: No one was trying to be particularly grammatical; I was trying to be Wikipedian. Wolfdog (talk) 14:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, all. I've decided, after Robertsky's bringing to light some history, that my actual proposal (which I did not recognize would be controversial at the time and therefore end up in a discussion) is to the name listed below, without a hyphen. Please feel free to close this discussion, however that works. Thanks. Wolfdog (talk) 14:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 01:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Young adult fiction → Young adult literature – The scope of the article is clearly "literature" not fiction. For instance, the page includes the word "novel" 61 times and the word "film" only once, so it is far and away about a particular type of fiction: written fiction... AKA literature. This is also an important term in the marketing world and education. Ngrams shows the slight preference for my label: thus WP:COMMONNAME. Wolfdog (talk) 14:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. (t · c) buidhe 17:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 01:12, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A browser search returns three times as many hits for "Young adult fiction" as for "Young adult literature", so evidently "Young adult fiction" is the more common phrase for this genre. Additionally "literature" encompasses more than fiction (for example, non-fiction, poetry, essays), and I have never heard of any such young adult literature.—Anita5192 (talk) 15:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1) That's why we use ngrams, which encompasses more physically published materials. Try Google Scholar, where there are roughly half the hits for "fiction" as for "literature". 2) We're also talking about the scope of the current article, which is clearly literature. Furthmore, rest assured that there are plenty of young adult non-fiction works, poems, and essays. Do you need me to provide further evidence of those to convince you? Wolfdog (talk) 15:37, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is Google Ngrams as you mentioned. SilverLocust 💬 21:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Children's literature has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support A long overdue move to reflect the scope of the subject -- Robina Fox (talk) 09:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The ngram count is a wash. Fiction is the more encompassing term, and should be preferred for this. However, most convincingly, in the references, the use of “literature” to “fiction” is 28-15. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Doesn’t matter that more people want to see YA fiction; we only have literature, and we shouldn’t oversell it Aaron Liu (talk) 13:28, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Recent edits

Why were the following edits, [1][2][3][4], which were all clearly constructive and all clearly explained in the edit summaries, reverted? --Justthefacts (talk) 19:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why they were reverted was explained in the edit summaries. What you should do here is explain why your edits were warranted.—Anita5192 (talk) 12:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edits were all clearly constructive and all clearly explained in the edit summaries: [5][6][7][8]. The reverts were not explained in the edit summaries: [9][10][11][12]. --Justthefacts (talk) 01:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Digital Media Literacy

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 November 2024 and 6 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Winstonvg2020 (article contribs).